Who or What Made Them?

by jptanabe

Questioning the origins of things - debates on who or what created a number of interesting features in our world.

We can agree that pretty much everything and everyone was made or created by someone or something. We twenty-first century humans have figured out who or what made most of them.

For example, we all agree that the Andes Mountains were made by natural forces and the ruined city of Machu Picchu was made by the Incas. Why they built this city up there on the top of the mountains in Peru is not known (or at least not agreed upon), but at least we all agree it was human beings (not aliens!) that made it!

However, there are still a few origins that we haven't agreed on - yet. So let's debate them!

Image of Machu Picchu from Wikimedia Commons.

How the Debates Work

To make it simpler, each debate is set up with only 2 choices. However, there are more than 2 candidates in many cases. I've tried to combine them as reasonably as possible, but it doesn't quite work in all cases. So if you really want to offer an alternative explanation feel free to add it to the Guestbook near the end. And if there's a lot of discussion in the Guestbook, I'll just have to make a new set of debates including those options!

Generally, the options available in these debates are:

  • Nature
  • Human beings
  • Aliens
  • God

So on to the first debate!

Markawasi Rock Formations

The rock formations at Markawasi (also written Marcahuasi) in Peru are quite amazing. They are on a plateau high in the Andes Mountains and have been dated back to 6,500 years ago. What is incredible about these rock formations is that they appear to be sculptures of animals and people, among other things. The experiences visitors have had there have led this "stone forest" of sculptures to be called Peru's "Sacred Forest."

Markawasi on video

So what's the deal here?

Well, one group of experts, like Daniel Ruzo who lived at the site for years in a little cabin, thinks the formations are sculptures made by the ancient culture of people who lived in that area thousands of years ago. This group claims that the rocks were created by the people of this ancient culture to represent the different animals and people. Actually, there are some who have suggested that aliens helped them!

The other group, like geologist Robert Schock, believe that the rocks are just natural formations. People "see" the animals and human heads in the rocks because we have a tendency to interpret things in meaningful ways.

I know what he means - there's a hill in Edinburgh called "Arthur's Seat" that looks just like a lion lying down with its head up (when viewed from a certain angle).

Not to be unfair, but the rock formations at Mount Rushmore are the real deal when it comes to sculptures made by human beings - yes, I know they're a lot more recent!

So, are the Markawasi rock formations more like Arthur's Seat or Mount Rushmore?

Arthur's Seat
Arthur's Seat
Arthur's Seat

Are the Markawasi Rock Formations Natural?

How were the Markawasi rock sculptures made?
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People made them
CruiseReady on 07/20/2015

Maybe it's a combination of the two: People saw a resemblance of something familiar in the shape of a rock, and refined it to be more so.

blackspanielgallery on 07/19/2015

I say by man. But, it is just a guess.

Natural forces "weathered" them
jptanabe on 07/17/2015

I haven't actually seen the Markawasi rock formations in real life so I could be wrong here, but I'm really skeptical that these "sculptures" are man-made. I think they look more like rock formations that just happen to look like animals or a person's face.

Nazca Lines

The Nazca Lines are enormous geoglyphs found in the desert near the town of Nazca in Peru. Due to the dry desert conditions these lines have been preserved from the time they were created, around 2,000 years ago.

Nasca Lines - Dog
Nasca Lines - Dog

At first glance you'd think the local people made them, and yes, there were people there called the Nasca people. So what's the mystery here?

Well, to start with, they're really huge. The largest one is nearly 270 meters (890 ft) long, covering an area nearly 500 square kilometers (193 square miles). That's a lot of work to make one, and there are several hundred in existence!

Then, and this is a biggie, you can only see what they represent from the air. That's why no-one (in recent history at least) had noticed them until people flew over the area in airplanes in the 1930s. So how could the people have built them if they couldn't fly?

Finally, why would this ancient culture make these huge figures in the desert? There are some suggested reasons of course, like they're for astronomical purposes, worshiping gods, even just for the sake of art! Maybe so.

Nasca Lines - Trapezoid
Nasca Lines - Trapezoid

What's the alternative? Aliens of course! Erich von Dniken said the Nazca lines are runways of an ancient airfield that was used by extraterrestrials mistaken by the natives to be their gods.

Far fetched? Maybe. But at least one of the figures does look rather like a runway - like this "Trapezoid."

And then there's the figure called the "astronaut" - for obvious reasons. I think he's very cute!

Nasca Lines - Astronaut
Nasca Lines - Astronaut

Who Made the Nazca Lines?

Humans or Aliens?
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The Nasca people
CruiseReady on 07/20/2015

I don't pretend to know, but certainly would question why on earth beings would travel light years to do or teach others to do such a thing. To what end?

blackspanielgallery on 07/19/2015

While I am open to the possibility of aliens, I cannot see a reason they would copy animals and people from Earth. Making something for no reason when one is passing a planet is not a reasonable idea.

jptanabe on 07/17/2015

These huge geoglyphs in the desert of Peru could have been made by the Nasca People, an ancient culture, who lived there at the time they were created. They get my vote anyway!

Crop Circles

Crop circles are sections of flattened crops that form large intricate patterns when viewed from the air. They usually appear in fields overnight, without anyone seeing who made them.

Crop Circle near Chartley Manor Farm 2006
Crop Circle near Chartley Manor Farm 2006
So who made them?

The first possibility, which I'm discounting here, is that they are just natural phenomena. The forces of nature just happen to make these amazing, enormous designs in the middle of fields of grain! Sorry, I'm not buying that one.

Of course some say crop circles are just natural phenomena. If that's your pick you'll have to say so in the Comments section at the end!

The second possibility is that people made them. Sure, people have been able to make some crop circles, and have claimed them as hoaxes. But here's the problem. Over the years there have been a large number of these crop circles appearing, overnight, without anyone seeing or hearing anybody making them. When you see how enormous they are (check out the video below) you can understand that it's quite an undertaking to make one of these designs, pretty hard to do in the dark too! And lots of them haven't been claimed by anyone as hoaxes.

Also, the method of flattening the crops seems to involve some kind of electromagnetic energy, one not available to the general public. Sure, it could be some kind of secret military technology. Why they're making these amazing and quite beautiful designs in the middle of farmers' fields is not clear though!

Aerial View of the Crop Circle in Diessenhofen
Aerial View of the Crop Circle in Diessenhofen

So the next option is some kind of paranormal activity. That means aliens in UFOs! Hey, without another explanation crop circles could be made by alien beings from other worlds. Of particular interest to me is the idea that these "aliens" are from a different plane of existence, not necessarily beings from other planets.

Crop Circles on Video - see how huge they are!

Who Makes Crop Circles?

Aliens in UFOs or just hoaxes made by people?
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They're just man-made hoaxes
CruiseReady on 07/20/2015

I'm just tired of the whole crop circle thing

blackspanielgallery on 07/19/2015

They are too detailed to be made by nature, and if a few people are hard to hide and keep the noise down, how do you hide and keep quiet an alien ship?

Aliens in UFOs
jptanabe on 07/17/2015

For this one I have to go with the "aliens" since I can't see how people could succeed in making so many of these circles, and with such amazing designs! I have to say though, my "aliens" might not be from outer space but rather beings from a different realm or dimension, perhaps even spirits of humans.

Mythical Creatures

I love mythical creatures! They appear in tales of wonder, legends, and mythologies all around the world. Some of these creatures are beautiful, bringing good fortune and happiness; others are dangerous and evil, and a hero has to appear to do battle and defeat them. Many of these creatures have supernatural powers that have no physical explanation. A number of them are chimeras, combinations of one of more creatures, such as a horse or a lion with wings. Some are even combinations of human beings and animals - like the centaur that is half man half horse, or the mermaid whose lower body is like a fish. Fascinating!

So where do these creatures come from?

Could be just our imagination. In all cultures people make up tales to teach their children about good and evil, threatening them with dangerous witches (like the Russian Baba Yaga), to keep them from misbehaving. The men also love to tell tales of how they defeated "monsters"! So perhaps dragons and unicorns, fairies and phoenixes, and even the Scottish Loch Ness Monster are just created by human beings from our imagination. Ah, surely not Nessie!

Yes, there is another possibility! Some of them could be real, existing creatures. Yes, there could be a creature or creatures living in Loch Ness! Some of them could have existed in the past. Dragons look quite like those flying dinosaurs really, don't they? And fairies could be some kind of spiritual being, normally invisible in our physical realm but real nonetheless. Others we probably invented - the centaur seems to be a case of mistaken identity, for example, when people who had never seen horses saw riders on horseback for the first time.

Where do Mythical Creatures come from?

Real creatures or just human imagination?
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At least some of these creatures have existed in nature
blackspanielgallery on 07/19/2015

But some are too far out there to have ever been real.

jptanabe on 07/17/2015

I really hope at least some of these amazing wondrous creatures exist or have existed in nature. I know the human imagination is a wonderful thing, but I like to think there's a real and amazing world out there too!

Human Beings

Where did we come from?
Human evolution scheme
Human evolution scheme

Now things are really getting interesting!

So, where did human beings (that's us!) come from? Obviously we didn't make ourselves - we still haven't figured out the cloning technique so obviously we didn't make all the people who've lived for millennia already.

The first possibility is that we are the result of the forces of nature. We just appeared here on the earth naturally, without any interference from outside, or plan, intelligent design, or whatever. We evolved from simpler animals as a result of random mutations and survival of the fittest or other such processes.

There's certainly some truth here. Obviously we're related to the apes, just as they are related to the monkeys and other mammals, and so on. So our appearance on the earth isn't magical, we didn't arrive from somewhere else. We were born here just like all the other living things that populate this planet.

Creation of Adam by Michelangelo
Creation of Adam by Michelangelo

But does that mean there are only forces of nature at work here? Not necessarily. In fact, laws of nature show that without input from outside things tend toward chaos, or at least simplification. To get something of a higher order, more complex (like human beings) you need input of some sort. Some say the input is in the form of an intelligent design. Religious people say the input came from God, who planned the whole creation and human beings as the highest form. So you can say God is the intelligent designer and He/She used the processes scientists have discovered to do the work of creating all the creatures. Some religious people don't want much to do with the scientific discoveries and just say God created human beings.

For this debate I'm saying the choice is between forces of nature (evolution) or an intelligent designer (God).

Where did Human Beings come from?

Created or evolved?
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We were created by an intelligent designer - can be called God
CruiseReady on 07/20/2015

Yep. I agree with you jptanabe

blackspanielgallery on 07/19/2015

I have asked some of my biologist friends why does there appear to be jumps in evolution, with no fossils being in between. While things do evolve, the missing link is hard to make a case for.

jptanabe on 07/17/2015

I'm not buying the random mutations argument here! I can't accept that this amazing universe just appeared without an intelligent designer who created everything, including the laws of nature, and especially created human beings. I'm calling that designer God.


Now this is really interesting!

Yes, here's the final question - who or what made God!

Now before you rush into saying there is no God, I've got you covered. That means that human beings created God. As can be seen in Michelangelo's famous painting "The Creation of Adam" detail here, the fingers of God and Adam are reaching out to touch each other, signifying that God gave life to Adam. But it could just as well be the other way round! Adam could have created God in his image to make sense of the world he found himself in!

The Creation by Michelangelo
The Creation by Michelangelo

The other option of course is that God does have a real existence. In this case, since God is the creator of all, no-one made God. For many believers this means that God has always existed, God is eternal, wasn't created, just is. That kind of works! Another way of looking at it is that God created God - well, probably some aspect of God was already in existence but God made Him/Herself into the creator God. I'll not get too theological here, let's just say God made God!

Who or What Made God?

God or people?
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God created God!
CruiseReady on 07/20/2015

That's for Him to know and us to find out. Maybe some day, anyway,

jptanabe on 07/17/2015

Well I think there are lots of gods that people have created! There's no denying that. But I also believe in God, the creator of this world (and the next), who wasn't created by any of us.

Link to another "debate"

I came across this blog called "101 Proofs for God" - it's quite fascinating actually! They are not boring theological treatises but rather commonsense examples of items, events, situations and so on that the author discusses in the context of God.

On this page, the author presents pairs of pictures (cave paintings and others) and asks the reader how they came into being. It's worth a look!

  • Caveman Paintings
    From the blog called "101 Proofs for God" (it's number 33 on the list).
Updated: 01/08/2023, jptanabe
Thank you! Would you like to post a comment now?

Did you Enjoy the Debates? - Anything else to say - here's the place!

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AngelaJohnson on 07/20/2015

I certainly did! You gave us a lot to think about.

jptanabe on 07/20/2015

Yes, it is not God Him/Herself that man creates, but rather the construct of God. Atheists would argue that the concept is purely a man-made construct and there is no creator being. In this case man created the concept of God is accurate.

CruiseReady on 07/20/2015

Interesting page!

frankbeswick on 07/20/2015

Your comments, Blackspaniel, are always apt, and I concur with your observation that proving God's existence before the Big Bang is impossible.Yet proof is a rare thing and we can make hypotheses, which are susceptible to justification rather than proof. Thus they can take us to belief rather than knowledge, which is the reward of proof. Keith Ward, Oxford professor of Theology, wrote an excellent book, God,Chance and Necessity, which analyses the three main hypotheses about the beginnings of the universe, and this book is well worth reading. What he produces are grounds for belief.

I think that there is an issue of language raised in the discussion of God. Some say that man created God, but this confuses God with the language and theory of God. God is prior to man, so man could not create him/her. But the word God is a human invention required to give a name to what we believe in. There are also different theories and understandings of God, and all of these are human products constructed to explain the religious awareness that there is a being prior to and greater than all things. The word explains the object of religious experience.

jptanabe on 07/19/2015

Yes! God simply exists, I agree. No creator of God. I just worded it that way to parallel "did man create God." Although perhaps one can say that God the Creator did not exist until God started creating, so in that sense God "created" the Creator! And indeed God also transcends time, so in a sense "before" there was time there was God.

blackspanielgallery on 07/19/2015

You ask some deep questions. Understand, time exists in the universe, but ceases in a detached singularity like a black hole, so trying to prove or disprove Cod before the Big Bang, which is also an uncertainty, is not within our ability to do. I would argue that God did not ?create" God, and certainly man did not. God simply exists, not subject to time.

jptanabe on 07/18/2015

Yes, there is plenty of historical evidence regarding these interesting phenomena. I love the story of the farmer who thought the Devil made the crop circles!

frankbeswick on 07/18/2015

The Nazca lines can be explained in the same way that much of Britain's neolithic monumental landscape can be explained. Archaeologists believe that stone age folk engaged in collective acts of landscaping and construction as a community bonding exercise. They think this because many monuments show show signs of being regularly reworked, for no pressing reason.

Those who like to write off all crop circles as hoaxes should realize that there are records from the seventeenth century of their occurring overnight. There is a tale that a reaper and a farmer had a dispute about the cost of mowing the farmer's fields and the angry farmer said that he would rather have the Devil mow his crops. Overnight three circles appeared and the farmer thought that the Devil had taken up the challenge and would want paying. The terrified man rushed to church to seek pardon and support from the minister. But the Devil did not arrive. I suspect that the circles are caused by vortices of air.

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