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Has Anybody Got Any Latin?

 
JoHarrington
Posts: 1816
Message
on 08/04/2014

*hopeful glance at all Catholics present*

I was just wondering why the Annales Cambraie refers to the Battle of Badon as Bellum Badonis, but the Battle of Camlann as Gueith Camlann.  Surely the 'battle' word should be the same.

Gueith is ridiculously close to an old Welsh word though. It would have my eyebrows in my hairline, if the rest of the text wasn't in Latin (thus suggesting this is a Latin word too).

That's the 954CE version, by the way. The later manuscripts substitute Bellum Camlan instead.


frankbeswick
Posts: 79
Message
on 08/04/2014

Bellum means war, whereas proelium means battle, but you must remember that church [ecclesiastical] Latin is not classical Latin as spoken by Caesar and  Cicero, as the language underwent some changes over the years. Expect some deviation from classical norms in writings from after the fall of the Roman empire. The language is structurally the same, but word usage can vary between the periods. Hence bellum badonici should have been proelium badonici, but the writers were perhaps not as linguistically exact as they ought to have been. 


frankbeswick
frankbeswick
Posts: 79
Message
on 08/04/2014

Ps: hopeful glance at Catholics!  When my local priest learned that I have Latin and some Greek he was somewhat awed and said that I could turn out useful. He doesn't have either, and the same goes for many. Much church discourse now uses Italian


frankbeswick
RupertTaylor
Posts: 108
Message
on 08/05/2014

Amo, amas, amat. Does that help?

JoHarrington
Posts: 1816
Message
on 08/05/2014

Thank you very much, Frank, and Rupert too... ish. <3

So gueith isn't Latin?


WordChazer
Posts: 412
Message
on 08/05/2014

I'm seeing from my quick research that it's something to do with Old English for 'strife'.

I would guess than gives it some previous with 'guerre' and maybe 'Guernica' then.

At least one source has it in a phrase as 'gueith linn garan', old Welsh for 'battle of Crane Lake'.

Linguistically and philologically, that would seem to make some sense though I'd have to do some serious research to prove it, as my philology is rather rusty.

And yes, I am a Classicist with 10 years of Latin scholarship to degree level. I also have some linguistics knowledge, enough to have coached my then boyf through his English linguistics finals, at least.


Described by one of my clients as 'a literary grammarian', writing, researching and reading are requirements for sanity, at least this side of the keyboard.
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