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Points for Participation vs Introversion

 
eslevy17
Posts: 8
Message
on 05/02/2012

I've been noticing something on the interwebs lately, which was pretty obvious from the start. The people with the most fans are the ones with the most upvotes and social media shares. This boosts their rankings within and beyond the site, as well as their popularity and authority, and the whole thing is self-reinforcing, creating a positive feedback loop of extroversion. If you get thousands of fans, chances are you'll also build some natural backlinks without having to do anything. Networked authors go on to create partnerships of all sorts, too.

To accomplish this, all you really need to do is participate in forums, comment on other people's pages, follow them, and write articles that generate discussion ("how to use this site" types seem to work well). But what about all those people who just want to write, but are anti-social hermits who prefer to live in their digital caves with no contact with the outside world?

The whole process reminds me of school teachers giving extra points for participation. It didn't make the introverts talk more, it just rewarded the extroverts for something they were involuntarily primed to do.

Personally, I have no problem with people participating if they have the desire to do so. But for those who only chime in occasionally, they won't build up a network. They might know the people on the site, recognize their faces and follow some of their work, but jumping in with a comment on a newly published article might feel forced, as it does for most introverts.

So I guess the point is, what is an introverted person to do? Just write search-targeted, ultra-low competition articles? Participate in forced conversations? Or live with the knowledge that his or her work will be, all else being equal, at a permanent disadvantage?

kajohu
Posts: 200
Message
on 05/02/2012

I almost didn't reply because I'm one of those who tends toward introversion Smile.   I can go in spurts for awhile to participate in forums and comment on pages, but then I just....sit back and observe.  

It's an interesting insight you made, and I'm wondering how true it is -- what you say makes sense to me.   Since I'm not an extrovert, I can't test its validity on myself!!!   I do feel relatively successful in my writing, but nowhere near as successful as many of the more active participants here on Wizzley or on Squidoo where I also write.

I'd like to hear from "introverts" who are very successful in their online writing.

 


Karen
Jerrico_Usher
Posts: 1210
Message
on 05/02/2012

In many ways writing helped me become more of an extrovert! Online at first I was extremely introverted like I was as a kid (new neighborhood I guess!).

I was for most of my childhood and early school years an introvert. Today I'm more of an extrovert but that comes from the same frustration you mention- introverts are unfairly seen in the wrong light or not given special consideration without some extra "work" on their part for what seems to be given freely to extroverts. I know it "seems" unfair but it really isn't. Instead of just maintaining frustration I decided to learn to become an extrovert. The reasons are that:

1. The world isn't going to change

2. The world works in two ways- those that go out and make things happen and take steps to plant seeds, stimulate change, and take your life's control and those that are introverted often miss out on A LOT. I get that it's not just something easy to change, but since I'm a "converted" extrovert from introvert I have some insight into this.

3. You have to really look at it in the frame work of not just fair/unfair, just or unjust but rather based on the rules of where you plan to put your time. In the writing realm, your goals are what truly make or break weather or not being an introvert will limit you or not. If your goal is to just write to share, but you want to quietly do so without so much fuss, then you can do that without a problem.

If your goal is to earn money, to drive massive traffic to your articles, gaining a lot of attention (which is how the money comes as it's a numbers game really), and you want your work to reach a global audience with comments, flags (like, tweet, etc...) then you should realize that introversion is not the best way to reach that goal. it's like trying to enter a marathon when your out of shape, overweight, and malnutritous, don't drink water-ever, and expecting the other runners to slow down so you have a better chance to win the race.

My bottom line was that I wasn't going to sit back and let my limitations (or what others considered limitations) weight me down. I say limitations loosely to mean what limits me in certain realms to excel) I started to learn all about how to extrovert, how to be more social, how to participate-

Frced or not, (it only feels forced because you don't "want" to do it, but if you practice doing it you will grow out of that mindset and realize want and need (as required by the laws of physics) are different.

In just doing it I learn the value in not only taking action and changing the patterns I'm so accustomed to that have imprisoned me for so long, but also that when you do participate enough you stop seeing it as forced and start seeing the benefits of doing so. Participation stimulates "planting seeds" which create cause effect relationships. A mouse cannot play in a cat world- so to speak.

It's true some extroverts are naturally that way (they figured out that this is due to a predisposition in the brain that these people are born with where there is literally, physically more dopamine and serotonin (mostly dopamine) receptors thus they tend to be more naturally energetic and "have" to extrovert just to burn that energy they can't hold in- off. (I'm so jealous of these people!)

Other reasons are the abundance of structures like Acetocholine receptors (the brains cell phone neurotransmitters/message actuators) that make their minds work clearly and thinking very easy, memory is almost photographic and the like- this causes them to see things more clearly, make decisions faster and with that comes extroversion in the form of "ease".

Many  introverts are such because they have to work at the extroversion concepts- being out going is a dopamine firing kind of thing, and one thing that sets extroverts apart is with clearer thinking and more energy they can often figure things out faster thus don't run into what introverts do- social anxiety.

It's not so much about being a social hermit but more so about not feeling like you can keep up or impress upon people consistently things that interest them, or that what you would share wouldn't be of interest. Nobody likes to talk and find they are essentially ignored. Other boundaries introverts run into is laziness- not feeling like it is no excuse for not doing it!

Wow this could be a wizzle all it's own.

The bottom line here is that there is no way around participation. It's the life blood of networking and the actuator, as you mentioned, of natural backlinks, more fans (thus more people seeing your articles right away and passing likes, links, even syndication out).It's simply cause and effect, physics of the realm and regardless of your reasons, if you don't do certain causes, certain effects are simply not possible.

My advice to you would be not to feel victimized by this but realize that if you want to be in this world and thrive, writing articles will do that to some extent but you will need to learn to extrovert more, at least where online participation is concerned or simply you will miss out. One thing I can tell you about web 2.0 properties such as this are that introverts do tend to do better here than say on your own site where your commissioned with 100% of the SEO, social bookmarking etc...

In short, you can actually just write here and that's it and it's possible, if your work is brilliant, people like it, and the editors (the wizzley staff) likes it they may pick it for "editors choice" which helps without you doing anything but publishing it. They do a lot of SEO work (why I like these sites), so although participation socially is the faster track- it's not required to succeed.

There is no work around, no cure, just practical awareness that extroversion although to some is natural, is a skill set building concept or those of us that are introverted. I didn't even talk to people, including teachers until the 9th grade, I was a wall flower at dances, I kept to myself always, and even had to be forced to go to recess in the 6th grade where I always hid behind the bungalo's to study homework. I was smart but not at all social, but teachers forced me to "play" and that started the chain of events that turned me into an extrovert (My fiance doesn't understand how I could have ever been an introvert!)

I can tell you that in the years I've spent breaking out of my introversion shell, I discovered that extroversion is one of those skill sets that set you free in MANY ways. It shouldn't be looked at like rich/poor- the have's and the have not's or based on fairness, but rather that in this business, in this realm, you really have to develop a sense of extroversion or it's going to take a lot longer to get syndicated.

Once you do develop a realistic view of extroversion and get your skill set going you'll find it's self perpetuating at some point. You just become that person. it's not about becoming something your not but rather becoming more of who you already are. You should extrovert so you can make your mark, show the uniqueness that is who you are, instead of hoarding it to yourself by not expressing yourself. If your here writing, my guess is that you want what all of us want, to be heard and to share your point of view with the world, to help people or simply to be a voice. If earning is your main objective extroversion is likely going to be a necessity to some degree (participation)...

You can make as many excuses, rationalizations, or beat the thing to death but in the end your not going to get anywhere until you throw in the towel, accept that extroversion in the "social" web is a requirement to really flood your work out to the masses and to become integrated into the community. I think you'll find extroversion is like being let out of a cage, and really seeing the world for it's glory and magnificence.

My fiance' Michelle is a strong introvert and I'm a strong extrovert (I know what your thinking but really it works amazingly well because I bring her out of her shell and she takes me down a notch or two!). I read your post to her and she got passionate about it saying that it's really not fair that I, just because I'm quiet and don't babble on about ridiculous or useless things, that I'm not seen for who I am.

She further stated that people tend to judge her as stupid, quiet, non-intellectual, and the like because she doesn't just open up to everybody- but in our discussion of what I put here (the fall out of our discussion actually) she came to see that what I wrote above (and I didn't try to convince her) was true... It's not a matter of fairness, it's a matter of the rules of engagement, the rules of the games you want to play, writing is a realm, and you can be either one to exist here, and even thrive, but if you want to tackle higher levels of earnings, traffic, and enjoy the sweet fast track that social engagement brings... you have to do what everyone else does that makes that possible.

I hope you see what I mean. I wish you luck... by the way just posting this was an extroversion in progress :)

@kajohu - I loved how you said I almost didn't respond because I'm inclined towards introversion :) glad you took the initiative none the less :)

Jerrico

p.s.

I wrote a wizzle about "what it's like to be a Wizzley author" that you may want to read for perspective. One thing that makes our community so valuable as you mentioned, is that they help one another and even an introvert can find some solace in that... Just go at your own pace and talk to people, get comfortable with others here one at a time, eventually you'll have a lot of fans and what you fear will limit you will actually just be a longer road to the same end.

My Wizzle is here: WizTronics


Jerrico Usher - The Grass May Be Greener On The Other Side But I Installed A Mirror Over There! :-) - Join Our Wizzler Chat Room created by the people for the people to the people
TerriRexson
Posts: 175
Message
on 05/03/2012

My approach is to just stick to what I'm comfortable with and ignore the rest. 

In my career we were always encouraged to focus on our weaknesses. Daft idea. You can have much better results by playing to your strengths. 

Remember that the extroverts are the ones that talk about success all the time. The introverts are just getting on with it.

 

 


onetimeuser
Posts: 378
Message
on 05/03/2012

 

Jerrico_Usher: 02. May 2012, 22:15

In many ways writing helped me become more of an extrovert! Online at first I was extremely introverted like I was as a kid (new neighborhood I guess!).

I was for most of my childhood and early school years an introvert.....................  

 

Edited by admin. No need to repeat the whole novella and create a bunch of duplicate content. Smile

 

Jerrico, have you ever thought about how much money you could be making if you were to focus all this energy into articles? I had to crop some of your post when quoting in order to remain with the maximum forum post limit of 10000 characters Tongue out

 

I'm an introvert by the way, not a very shy one though, if that makes sense. I am very forward and chatty, but very private and reserved when it comes to expressing emotion or revealing things about myself.

 

I think that most online writers are introverts, writing is itself one way that many introverts choose to express themselves. I'd say that writers are more likely to be introverts than extroverts. 

 

onetimeuser
Posts: 378
Message
on 05/03/2012

And I mean of course that people who are extroverts online are likely to introverts offline.

 

eslevy17
Posts: 8
Message
on 05/03/2012

Some interesting points here...I thought it was worthwhile to raise the question, regardless of whether there were actionable plans that came out of it.

And Terri, your "never do keyword research" strategy is unique to you. If everyone in the world just started blogging about whatever they felt like writing about, they'd all be as successful as you by now. People give up all the time, which means you're clearly doing something altogether different. Which is GREAT, of course, but it is indisputably some sort of black magic that you have accidentally concocted. Like that guy who tripped and found the terra cotta warriors in Xian.

And RyanK, I'd love to hear of this ebook scheme of yours you mentioned elsewhere...diversification is always wonderful.

Jerrico_Usher
Posts: 1210
Message
on 05/03/2012

Sorry Ryan, I actually focus a great deal into articles, I'm currently working on 20 articles I have imported and am bouncing between like a mad man-  One of the reasons I think I tend to write too much in the forum posts is that I'm doing this and as I go my energy increases. I check the forum time to time as a break from the construction of pages, perhaps I should take a moment to walk or run around the block before doing that haha :) It's the energy shots, extreme motivation, and a thirst to help others that drives me.

I really felt eslevy's pain here so I kinda went off :)

I don't know why people think all I do is write in the forum, I guess only the wizzley staff can truly see what else I'm doing... don't mean to be winded, it just happens... Wizzley has struck a positive nerve in me and I get a bit excited, I'm actually laid back in my real/offline life- I know, hard to believe.

@ellevy17 you'll get there, just write, write, and write some more, worry about syndication later, what makes people want to fan you and like your articles is often them bouncing between several in your account and thinking, wow this guy has some interresting stuff! Introversion or extroversion doesn't much matter because writing and publishing works will eventually get indexed in Google then as people find your articles they will like them (if they are written well) and that will set off a cascade of other things.

My Get rid of a pimple overnight hub on hubpages took off with absolutely no interaction from me- one day someone reddit,stumbleuponed it and within a few months it was syndicated on over 200 sites (which are backlinks), I had left my account alone for a whole year and when I came back to it I had a page that was earning over 300.00 a month and growing and that was without anything but adsense on it.

I'll stop right there before I bust into another novel. I wish you luck, and thanks Ryan for your advice although trust me I'm working my arse off with other articles... I may publish 10 this week if I'm not careful haha.   :)

Jerrico

 


Jerrico Usher - The Grass May Be Greener On The Other Side But I Installed A Mirror Over There! :-) - Join Our Wizzler Chat Room created by the people for the people to the people
TerriRexson
Posts: 175
Message
on 05/03/2012

 

eslevy17: 03. May 2012, 02:19

 

And Terri, your "never do keyword research" strategy is unique to you. If everyone in the world just started blogging about whatever they felt like writing about, they'd all be as successful as you by now. People give up all the time, which means you're clearly doing something altogether different. Which is GREAT, of course, but it is indisputably some sort of black magic that you have accidentally concocted. Like that guy who tripped and found the terra cotta warriors in Xian.

 

Doing market research instead of keyword research is far from unique. It's just that you can't flog your fellow writers keyword research tools so fewer people talk about it Wink

Oh and to make sure I'm completely up front, I do use a keyword tool for vocab checking sometimes - it's amazing how many everyday words are different in American English. 


eslevy17
Posts: 8
Message
on 05/03/2012

I feel bad whenever I use British measurements because I'm participating in the dumbing down of American anti-metric sentiment. We'll never learn.

2uesday
Posts: 321
Message
on 05/03/2012

 

eslevy17: 03. May 2012, 02:46

I feel bad whenever I use British measurements because I'm participating in the dumbing down of American anti-metric sentiment. We'll never learn.

I am just smiling because in Britain we use metric in business when shopping  and in education as the law dictates and it was changed on measurement some time ago.

Secretly (behind closed doorsSmile)  those educated in the old measurements still talk in pints and gallons,inches, feet  and yards.  Best of all sometimes we use really archaic measurement when measuring land, which refers back to the length of an oxen and plough. 

I think I might be an introvert who has a need to communicate, which makes me come out of my shell at times.  Which is when I appear to be an extrovert because when I do start talking it can be difficult to stop, or as the less kind would say when to shut up. As my  post here demonstrates.

BrendaReeves
Posts: 845
Message
on 05/03/2012

You can't get anymore introverted than I am. The way I look at it is that no matter what job you have, there is always going to be tasks within that job that you hate doing. Writing online is no different.


Brenda Reeves
humagaia
Posts: 652
Message
on 05/03/2012

Introvert /extrovert - who online cares?

We only do face-to-face with those that we really know. Can anyone tell from what is written whether someone is introvert or extrovert? I have my doubts.

Writing comments - what are you worried about - if it is a comment that does not garner a response then along with it being forgotten, goes the knowledge of who made it. Nothing gained, but nothing lost either.

Whoever you are you must do what is necessary to achieve.

In these changing times an online writer must do whatever they can to gain traffic - and that means socializing now I'm afraid. Whether it be social media, blogging, commenting or whatever, the name of the game is to get your name out there, create a brand, create a following, and keep that audience coming back for more - that's it folks - nothing more, nothing less.

Forget the tags placed upon you. Forget how you see yourself and how you are described. Do like an actor: place yourself in your alter ego - I'm not Chaz Fox, I'm Humagaia!

Perhaps thats the way to get over being an introvert - create your extrovert alter ego, and be as you think they should be online. Something to hide behind whilst at the same time building a brand.

Get over it - be someone else!


cherylone
Posts: 47
Message
on 05/03/2012

I am an introvert.  I tend to sit back and observe rather than participate.  I decided to add my 2 cents here (yeah I know not much) because I felt kindred to you all.  Introverts find it hard to get involved because we are so afraid that what we have to say won't be of any interest to the extroverts.  At least that is how I feel.  I am hoping to get better over time and I have become a bit more involved, who knows maybe I can become a "masked extrovert" that everyone recognizes but no one actually knows LOL Embarassed (I can't believe I said that)

humagaia
Posts: 652
Message
on 05/03/2012

Introverts worry about what others think about them, it seems.

Extroverts seemingly don't give a damn.

Let me tell you as an extrovert - I do give a damn.

Let me tell you as an extrovert - I don't know you are an introvert; I don't care if you are; if a valid point is made, I applaud it whoever (and whatever) you may be; if I think a point is mis-made then I will comment (Whether from an introvert or extrovert).

The chances are the best made comments are from those that are introvert, because they are likely made after careful consideration. The comment is drawn out from the gizzard, if not strangled first.


dustytoes
Posts: 1140
Message
on 05/03/2012

 

humagaia: 03. May 2012, 08:13

Introverts worry about what others think about them, it seems.

Extroverts seemingly don't give a damn.

The chances are the best made comments are from those that are introvert, because they are likely made after careful consideration. The comment is drawn out from the gizzard, if not strangled first.

You said it. (I don't know about the "best made comments" part.)

I sometimes write a comment at length and then delete it and move on saying nothing.  I always second guess myself and get very nervous whenever I add my two cents at any forum.

I am not comfortable doing so, but I've found Wizzley to be a friendly, non-judgmental place so even us introverts can speak up.

Now I am sweating... Yell


katiem2
Posts: 1044
Message
on 05/03/2012

Everyone wants to be heard and yet we're in the business of delivering what people search for.

So, are we not better off to hear and deliver what the reader seeks leaving our personality out of it?

Bottom line is if you define your niche, grab an audience, you will become a high ranking author regardless of your intro and or extro status...

BUT, I do understand your point eslevy17, it is a valid point and yet it is what it is. We have to ignore it.  Stay focused on our work true to our vision ignoring the distraction or lure of a popularity contest.

 


humagaia
Posts: 652
Message
on 05/03/2012

 

Dustytoes: 03. May 2012, 09:00

 

humagaia: 03. May 2012, 08:13

Introverts worry about what others think about them, it seems.

Extroverts seemingly don't give a damn.

The chances are the best made comments are from those that are introvert, because they are likely made after careful consideration. The comment is drawn out from the gizzard, if not strangled first.

You said it. (I don't know about the "best made comments" part.)

I sometimes write a comment at length and then delete it and move on saying nothing.  I always second guess myself and get very nervous whenever I add my two cents at any forum.

I am not comfortable doing so, but I've found Wizzley to be a friendly, non-judgmental place so even us introverts can speak up.

Now I am sweating... Yell

Stop sweating - just perspire a little - it's more lady-like.

Perhaps the difference between an in- and an ex- is whether they hit the 'save' button.

'Risk it' or 'not' that is the dilemma!

But as you say Wizzley = friendly, non-judgemental. 

Hehe! but it could change!


onetimeuser
Posts: 378
Message
on 05/03/2012

 

And RyanK, I'd love to hear of this ebook scheme of yours you mentioned elsewhere...diversification is always wonderful.

 

I wouldn't really call it a 'scheme', as that sounds a bit garish and guru-like, almost like a word used on the Warrior Forum.

I've written and published over 20 eBooks myself, all high quality non-fiction. 

In addition to that I picked out three or four of the most talented writers that I'd hired before and commissioned them to write eBooks in exchange for a one-off lump sum payment.

I am actually referring to it as a business, and in fact I have incorporated it as a publishing business and it doesn't take any short cuts.

I've invested a significant amount of money into writers and graphic designers, just like any other publisher would, I then do the formatting myself into the various digital book formats (e.g. mobi) and distribute them via various channels and do the marketing.

It's certainly not a unique idea or some sort of get rich quick scheme, it's a legitimate enterprise. It's my first registered business in fact, I have distributed shares, have a corporate accountant, and have had a lawyer create my contracts and disclaimers,. 

The royalty cheques will be getting paid to my business name, and I will pay myself in the form of dividends from profits. In the UK a 'scheme' pretty much means a 'hustle', but I'm focused on building a sustainable long-term business so I'd personally never refer to it as that. 

I mean, if you simply want to diversify a bit, then write a few eBooks and upload them to Kindle and Smashwords..... I'm actually dedicating all of my time to the business, so it's my full-time go.

I'm just on Wizzley to move whatever I can salvage from my Hubpages portfolio, which is actually a huge time drag and counter-productive to the business that I am building.

eBooks are a numbers game though, so publish 10 and you might find 1 which earns decent money, publish 20 you might find 2 or 3, hence why I had to invest money into it. 

I actually published my first eBook 14 months ago, and it took a year of writing and publishing to earn decent money, and then I reinvested all of that money, with that sort of strategy it's never a short term gain. 

So if you were hoping that I'd just say "yeah, knock together some of your articles and bundle them into a word doc, slap together a simple cover on paint, and the money will start rolling in" then.... well, just doesn't work like that. There are people making a hell of a lot of money on Kindle, but they also put 50 or 60 hours a week into it for several years to get there.

 

chefkeem
Admin
Posts: 3394
Message
on 05/03/2012

 

Jerrico_Usher: 03. May 2012, 02:31

I guess only the wizzley staff can truly see what else I'm doing... don't mean to be winded, it just happens... Jerrico

 

Exactly. And we've asked you repeatedly to refrain from posting such lengthy forum responses. You promised to do that but, obviously, you don't keep your promise.

It doesn't matter whether you mean to be winded or not. Just stop it, will ya?

Please don't respond with another lengthy complaint about me "singling you out". I'm not. You are the only one doing this. If there were others, I would address them too.


Achim "Chef Keem" Thiemermann is the co-founder of a pretty cool new platform called...um...er...oh, yeah - Wizzley.com.
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