The Holocaust - or a genocide very like it - can and will happen again. The best that any of us can say is 'not on my watch'.
Perhaps the only silver lining of the Holocaust is that it now stands as a recent, vivid and perfect example of how racist policies can go too far. It's a very inconvenient entry in the historical record, for those who would do it all again.
Much better to make it all go away.
Post-Holocaust antisemitism has had to wrap itself in knots, in order to be taken seriously by anybody. "You want to include Jews in our society? Then YOU are antisemitic, not me!" They cry, continuing in the face of incredulous frowns, "Because if you don't separate them, then societal diversity will make them lose their culture! Dilute their bloodline! YOU WILL HAVE WIPED THE JEWS FROM THE EARTH, JUST BY INCLUDING THEM!!"
And for 'Jews', please feel free to insert any other race different to the speaker. Or indeed, those of a different creed, political leaning or whatever else comes to mind.
For a moment there, such twisted logic sounds superficially reasonable, until you realize that the natural outcome would be ghettos, camps or sealed off states. Anything which a) emphasizes race like it's not a meaningless distinction and b) promotes segregation. It makes it sound like concentration camps are a good idea.
Many Holocaust Deniers hail from neo-Nazi, far-right or KKK-type backgrounds. For those members with keen intelligence, then the Holocaust can be used as a means to ensure that it happens again. All they have to do is persuade enough people that it didn't happen in the first place, or it was exaggerated, in order to allow its perceived victims to capitalize upon survivor pity.
If a consensus could be reached to agree upon this, then mainstream society would naturally feel angry about the inherent duplicity. We would all turn against the Jews (and other 'undesirable' groups) and turn the other cheek, as the machinery of exclusion through to extermination kicked in again.
It's a sad indictment of human nature that such a reading is probably correct. Society can all too easily turn against a sector of itself. History has provided countless examples of that over and over again. Currently the Holocaust - its place in living memory, its wealth of evidence, and majority acceptance that it did indeed happen - stands between us and the next time.
No wonder the more insidious of antisemitic, and other racist, movements would have us deny it. Carefully inserted doubt shoots holes in the 'never again', but only if we let it.
JT, you refer to my claim that for the conspiracy to work too many people would have to be involved and say that it is nonsense. But, speaking as a retired philosophy lecturer, I will tell you that nonsense only occurs when a sentence is semantically meaningless. There is nothing meaningless in what I said about the need for a massive conspiracy to to have happened. Not one post in this long dispute has made any nonsensical assertion, But your view of history is a grotesque parody of the truth. It is a vast falsehood concocted in the service of an evil movement, Nazism.
Nazism was evil. Hitler invaded countries to steal their land and property, and to enslave their people.The aim of Grossdeutschland resulted in an attempt to steal much of Russia and twenty million dead. One who could ruthlessly wage war for aggrandisement would also casually dispose of many who were opposed to him. Evil creates hell on earth, and as Nazism was fundamentally evil then it created hell in its concentration camps. It could not do otherwise.
You can read it here, for free http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks02/0200... he outlined everything in advance
And I have another question for you JT:
I am German, my parents were Germans, we don't have any Jewish connections whatsoever nor were my parents involved in any Resistance during the Nazi time --- so how do you explain to me that my own parents told me that they, as completely average citizens with no political affiliation whatsoever, KNEW about the Holocaust as it happened aka 1938-45? They knew about the gassing / killings of Jews, POWs, Roma, disabled people etc whilst it was happening in Germany, not only afterwards.
And, have you read 'Mein Kampf'? I have, Hitler lined it all out in his book and he wasn't shy about he would go about the Endloesung....
* Why did underground intelligence groups in the camps make no report back to their governments in exile regarding the so-called exterminations?
The ghost of Witold Pilecki would be fascinated to know why you think they didn't. He first mentioned such exterminations in Auschwitz as early as 1941 in his reports.
As for why no-one reported on the 'so-called exterminations', they were too busy reporting on the real ones: http://www.holocaust-history.org/ausc...
* How did Polish free labor employed in the camp overlook the supposed extermination?
I'm sorry, I don't understand the question. Do you mean 'overlook' in the sense that they didn't notice it, or their barrack windows didn't have a view of the slaughter?
By and large, the Polish prisoners were in Auschwitz I, which was by no means safe, but wasn't the purpose built death camp that was Auschwitz-Birkenau. They saw people die in their thousands, but not at the scale being enacted down the road.
We can go back to our old friend Witold Pilecki for some evidence. http://www.amazon.com/The-Auschwitz-V...
* Why did Heinrich Himmler issue an order that "the death rate in the camps be reduced at all costs"?
He wrote that in a letter dated December 28th 1942, issued to all concentration camps, with a directive to pass the orders issued within to the relevant people (doctors, administrators etc.). It pertained to typhoid outbreaks in several camps and demanded that they do everything in their power to deal with the epidemics.
Why? Two reasons. a) Typhus is contagious. SS guards and other staff worked in these camps. SS guards can catch typhus; and b) a lot of Reich wealth was being created by slave labor in a variety of occupations. The slaves were going to be worked to death anyway, but typhus was severely disrupting output.
There was a war on. Labor needs increased substantially in 1942. (And incidentally, the typhus epidemic, brought in largely by deportees from the east, simultaneously had Himmler stepping up plans to build the gas chambers.)
* Why did the Germans build huge hospital facilities in the camps to put sick Jews back to work?
To engage in forced sterilizations; contain epidemics; and conduct medical experiments. Did you think those things happened in the street?
I hope that you found these answers informative. Please do feel free to ask some more.
John - You put the word survivor in quotation marks, thus implying that Eva Mozes Kor did not survive. I'd like to clarify the point that she was indeed still breathing during that interview (and afterwards). Eva is not a zombie.
I have no need to ask Eva those questions, as I can answer them myself.
* Why did the Germans build an extermination camp right in the middle of Polish villages and farmland?
You haven't said which one, but I'm going to assume Auschwitz. (Pipe up if you had another in mind, and I'll educate you on that one too.)
The first people incarcerated in Auschwitz were the Polish POWs. They were in Auschwitz I. This complex already existed, as it was originally a barracks for the Polish army, therefore entirely fit for purpose in housing lots of captured Polish soldiers. The Germans did add some infrastructure to it, but fundamentally it was around those brick barracks.
Auschwitz II (aka Auschwitz-Birkenau) is a different story. When you say 'in the middle' you actually mean 'right on top of' Polish villages. The village of Birkenau was evacuated and demolished, in order that Auschwitz II may be purpose-built on top of it. Why? Because the cleared site, and surrounding farmland, afforded enough space within easy access of the existing Auschwitz I.
There were also dozens of other sites dotted around the immediate area. But, with the exception of Auschwitz III, they tended to be smaller concerns. They were seized (and sometimes reconditioned) farms, industrial sites etc.
Also you need to note that the Auschwitz complex was smack bang in the middle of a huge zone made safe for the Third Reich. By which I mean most of the properties were being used by SS guards and other personnel. The town of Auschwitz itself was mostly empty, on account of it once having had a majority Jewish population.
* Why do US aerial photos show no sign of Jews being "gassed"?
Because the aerial photos were taken by airplanes, which tend to be outside. The Jews (and others) were being gassed inside. There was a roof in the way.
However, you can see a group en route to the gas chambers in this US aerial photo: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/j... (Captions by the CIA. Photograph taken August 1944.)
Sam - I very rarely take his comments down. The only instances have been when he's used strong language, which is against the rules of Wizzley, or (and this has only been the last two days) he's waffling on about Holocaust denial in the comments section of an article about the Titanic and Suffragettes.
I gave him the option of coming here, which he has done.
You do ask a good question though. Why didn't he respond to any of my questions?
And why don't you answer the questions asked of you? Saying "As for the argument that too many people would have to be involved for such a conspiracy to work, that same nonsensical argument was made over Pearl Harbor." really isn't a factual answer at all.
Oh, and no worries, I am sure Jo will leave your comment up as, for once, it doesn't contain much in terms as personal insults ...
I truly enjoyed your limey lick p---y interview and the cream puff questions. Why did you not ask your "survivor" the following questions:
Why did the Germans build an extermination camp right in the middle of Polish villages and farmland?
Why do US aerial photos show no sign of Jews being "gassed"?
Why did underground intelligence groups in the camps make no report back to their governments in exile regarding the so-called exterminations?
How did Polish free labor employed in the camp overlook the supposed extermination?
Why did Heinrich Himmler issue an order that "the death rate in the camps be reduced at all costs"?
Why did the Germans build huge hospital facilities in the camps to put sick Jews back to work?
As for the argument that too many people would have to be involved for such a conspiracy to work, that same nonsensical argument was made over Pearl Harbor. I doubt that you will let this post stay up, Miss Harrington any more than the last one. It would raise all the questions you cannot answer - which is why you confess intellectual impotence by deleting them.
Thank you very much. I was a little concerned that I sounded patronizing. That was never the intention. It was to point out all of the tricks and sleight of hand tactics, so the comments section here will become a repository of such for any future readers too.
You are doing good job enlightening us as to the techniques of deniers. I would never have known the scale of denial or the malevolent intent behind it until too late. I think that you have alerted us to be aware of the ways in which lies and linguistic deceptions are inserted into the argument.